Menu

HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:51:59 GMT X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Content-Type: text/html

404 Object Not Found

Spotlight Sale

HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:51:59 GMT X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Content-Type: text/html

404 Object Not Found

Newbie FAQ

The following content has been edited by ASR to meet ASR regulations.

Well, I hope that this write up will serve as a decent starting point for newbies seeking basic information regarding AEG’s and GBB’s, and even BB’s. While I most definitely DO NOT know everything, and make no such claims of being all-knowing, I am writing this “mini-FAQ” with the best intentions in mind – in that my limited experience may help answer the questions of a newbie player. What I have posted here is all from my own personal experience as an active skirmish player and “little” collector, and, as far as I know, true. If anyone feels that I may have been mistaken or have posted false information, please feel free to post replies in this thread and also to contact me privately at:

Cxl77@po.cwru.edu
Thanks! Allen

First, AEG’s.

Typically, you’ll want to know about Tokyo Marui, or TM, Automatic Electric Guns – AEG’s. I don’t know anything about the lesser Korean-made models, and as such, I am unable to comment on them.

Basically, ALL, that’s right, all TM AEG’s share the same durability/reliability characteristics as one another – and furthermore, they all share the same typical performance characteristics based on a very few set of variables.

The first is motor type.

Motor type is one of the major factors that will affect rate-of-fire (ROF). Honestly, however, while there are some differences in ROF performance based on motor type, unless you are doing a back-to-back/side-to-side comparison between two differently equipped AEG’s, or are testing specifically for this variable (i.e. holding all other factors constant and “bench” testing the AEG in a lab-type situation/setup), you’re not likely going to notice a difference. Let’s put it this way. ANY of these AEG’s are capable of spitting out a near constant stream of BB’s at upwards of 900 rounds per minute. And if that’s not enough for you to hose/suppress your target and keep their heads down, then you’d best spend the $2000 to get a replica minigun….. Of course, there are advantages to be had for having a higher ROF, but really, in field use during skirmishes, you more than likely will NOT notice this factor. And sure, when upgrading, this particular factor may be of some concern, but as a newbie, really, you shouldn’t be worried about upgrading, anyway.

The second variable is battery type, or more accurately, battery size.

Aside from how long your AEG will get juice to power its internals, this is also one of the determinants of ROF. Very, very basically speaking, the larger the battery, the longer it will last, and the higher the ROF provided. And what I mean by large here isn’t necessarily a measure of the physical size of the battery (don’t get me wrong, the current thinking also seems to point to this being a factor), but rather, both its voltage (V) and capacity (mAh) (details about this set of factors and its impact on durability and ROF can be found in the various d-board and forums on-line, just search around).

While an AEG will function on 7.2V, the nominal voltage for operation of TM AEG’s is 8.4V. At 1.2V per cell, you’ll see that this means you’ll need, nominally, a 7-cell pack. With 8.4V, you can rest assured that you’ll have more than sufficient juice to run your AEG at its utmost potential. So, what about increasing voltage? You do see a lot of up-voltage battery packs out there – 9.6V, 10.8V, or even the tremendous 12V battery packs. These will increase your ROF, but without proper precautions, especially with the latter two, you’re like to do some damage to your internals. So, in a word, just stay with the 8.4V packs – there’s really no need to increase your power until you start upgrading the internals of your AEG, which, as a newbie, you shouldn’t be upgrading your AEG anyway…..

Now, what about how long your battery lasts? Well, this is a function of the mAh value that you see. The larger the mAh value, the longer the battery will last. Typically, your 600 mAh batteries will last anywhere from 400 to 900 rounds of fire. Why such a big range? Batteries are very sensitive to temperature, and the lower the ambient temperature, the shorter your battery will last. For example, the worst I’ve seen is a 8.4V 600 mAh “mini” pack that only managed to last 200 rounds before needing a recharge – but that’s at a temperature of near 40 deg. F. Pretty darned cold! With a 1700 or higher mAh capacity battery, you can pretty much assume that you’re going to be able to crank out over 1200 BB’s.

And yet, there are many battery pack sizes. There’s the flat “mini” along with its other “2/3 A” cell type sisters, the “stick” or “AK”-type, as well as the many custom-shaped packs designed for increased capacity that fit into stock locations. On the other hand, there’s the “large” or “standard” sized “Sub-C” type cell packs. With the latter “Sub-C’s” so much physically larger than the “mini’s,” many newbies are lead to ask if the physically larger battery packs will provide better performance. Again, as with motor types, unless you are specifically controlling to test for this “size” variable, you’ll likely not notice a difference either in overall capacity or ROF when comparing a “large” battery with a “mini” that BOTH HAVE THE SAME VOLTAGE AND MAH values.
What does this mean? Basically, if you’re considering a solid-stock AEG variant over its retractable or folding-stock variant solely based on the type of battery -- “large” vs. “mini” – you actually don’t have to worry that much. A-sized cells are now available with up to 1700 mAh capacity, and are shaped in the form of the “mini” 2/3 A-sized packs for use in many of those applications, as such, unless you are seeking the ultimate in capacity (i.e. 2000 or 3000 mAh, which are, so far, only available with the Sub-C’s), you can rest assured that your performance, overall, between your “mini” and a similarly rated “Sub-C” will be equal.
For more information, I highly recommend that you take the time to read through these linked articles:

http://www.blackrain7.com/faqs/battfaq.html

 

http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_Battery.html

and

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/images/bite/BiteMar00/bitemar00.htm

(Note that this last one has a few small mistakes, but is, overall, good – use it as a secondary source, focus your study efforts on the RepairFAQ.org Battery FAQ documents and the info. Contained in the BlackRain7.com “Battery FAQ.”

The third and final variable to consider in your AEG purchase is inner barrel length. This is the only variable you’ll need to consider with respect to accuracy and range.
The AEG’s can be sub-divided in many forms based on their overall body structure as much can their real-steel counterparts. However, a more accurate organization would be according to each AEG’s inner barrel length. Pretty much, the inner barrel length of the AEG’s also fall, conveniently, into those very same categories as their real-steel counterparts. As such, they can be grouped into the following:

Compact sub-machine guns: HK MP5K and PDW SMG’s, the rest of the HK MP5 Series, IMI Uzi

Carbines: HK G3 MC51, Colt M4A1

Full-sized rifles (with or without folding stocks)/Bullpups/Semi-auto only sniper rifle.

At 30-40 feet, in an windless indoor range, all of these AEG’s are capable of hitting a 1 inch tall by ½ inch wide target, repeatedly, with the help of an auxiliary sighting device (i.e. scope, laser, etc – for it is really very, very hard to “see” a target that size at that range, much less align it with iron sights). This is pretty impressive, isn’t it?

Now, what about range? Well, rather then absolute range, I like to speak of this in terms of “effective range.” I consider “effective range” to be the ability of an AEG, loaded with 0.20 gram BB’s and with the HopUp properly adjusted, to hit a moving, man-sized target, center-mass. As I’ve said before, the best determinant of range on stock AEG’s is internal barrel length. Therefore, the following generalization can be made:

Compact SMG’s: 60-70 ft.
SMG’s: 70-80 ft.
Carbines 80-100 ft.
Full-sized rifles/Bullpups/SA sniper rifle (PSG-1): 100-120 ft.

So, as you can see, there’s not one AEG here that’s not suitable for CQB-type play, in terms of effective range (although to tote a full-sized assault rifle in CQB will surely be a feat simply due to the physical length of the rifle) Furthermore, even though there’s quite a bit of difference in the effective range spanning between the SMG’s and the full-sized rifles, you’ll note that such differences are not so tremendous as to make the SMG’s too greatly disadvantaged in even open outdoor skirmishes. Basically, if a player’s aggressive enough and can move smartly, a distance of 20 to 40 ft isn’t all that much of a tactical advantage.

Where does all this lead to in terms of your decision? Simple, just about every one of these AEG’s perform similarly, especially when matched in their own sub-categories. Does that put you into even more of a delimma? It really shouldn’t.

Basically, focus on what your needs are first. Do you want a small, maneuverable piece for the close-in CQB work? Simple, get one of the smaller AEG’s. Are you only 5’2” tall and are blessed with short arms? Fine, one of the smaller AEG’s will do you well, too – and you’d not only look ridiculous with a meter-long SG-1, you’ll find that it would be awkward for you to handle, too. What if you’re a tall, lanky guy who’s looking only to play outdoor games? The full-sized rifles will do you just fine, then. Not only will you be able to handle them just fine, thanks to those lanky arms, you’ll also be able to use the additional range to good effect outdoors.

With that decision made, move on to the particular replica that, cosmetically, pleases you the most. Are you looking for a long-gun with a long inner barrel, but are tired of the classic looks of most assault rifles? Fine, go for one of the bullpups. Do you dislike the M4A1 as it seems that everyone and their brother has one? That’s OK, too – just take the MC51 instead.

Of course, the possible upgrade paths should be of some concerns as well, but again, as a newbie, this should be the LAST thing on your mind.

You’re now probably back to worrying about the durability/reliability of these models again. Once more, I’ll remind you that as TM AEG’s, they all share approximately the same track records when it comes to these two factors.

Even though they share much in common, you should keep in mind that each model will differ slightly in certain mechanical, performance, and aesthetic areas. 

One last item that you should keep in mind is that often, there’s a tremendous amount of production variability in even just one model liine. For example, the “infamous” chasis-flex that plagues the HK G3 SG/1, while it has been extensively documented by several players, has also been decidedly denied by others. Are these other players lying? No, they simply lucked out, and, for whatever reason, just received a better “put together” item off of the Tokyo Marui production line. It’s much the same as buying a car, or any other major piece of high-tech equipment. Sometimes, you luck out, and you get a piece that is drop-dead reliable; other times, your luck isn’t so great, and you wind up with a “lemon” that’s broken as soon as you take it out of the box. As with anything else that’s mass-produced, there’s a bit of production-line variability in quality of build to be expected with these AEG’s.

And as for maintenance, simply follow what the Tokyo Marui manual that arrives with your AEG dictate. There’s enough English directions in there that you should EASILY be able to figure out what to do and when to do it. Get yourself a bottle of pure silicone spray or oil lubricant (avoid any and all petroleum distillates, as it will harm your rubber seals/Hop bucking), and you’re set to go. There’s a bunch of information about maintenance and lubricants available on the various d-boards and forums, and I again recommend that you turn to them for more complete information. In the mean time, this should prove sufficient as a starter:

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/images/bite/BiteJune00/Bite-jun00.htm#AEG Care

Finally, having done all of your homework, you’re ready to make the purchase. Now, then, who has the best prices? Again, here, a simple-minded “can anyone tell me who has the best prices” post will only land you in more trouble. Prices change, and retailers are now in the practice of running “specials” all during the year. As such, you can never be guaranteed of getting the best price if you simply trust someone’s word for it (it may have been the cheapest place for him a month ago, but the prices may have changed in the interim). Use the “Links” on this website to take you to the various retailers’ commercial websites. Spend a moment and look through their pages and note down their prices on a piece of paper (don’t forget cost of shipping!), and then, e-mail a few for a complete price quote, including shipping – and to check for item availability. Only by doing your own leg-work can you be guaranteed to get the best prices.

Now then, what about GBB’s?

Hate to break it to all of you like this, but there are NO 100% reliable GBB’s. That’s right, NONE – not even the fabled Western Arms marque. Trust me, even the best of this genre, the true thoroughbreds, are tempermental bitches.

Empirically, GBB’s are simply more prone to operational failures than their respective AEG counterparts. Their action is inherently harmful to their parts, and, moreover, the necessary containment of pressurized gas makes them constantly vulnerable to leaks. Moreover, they are arguably more maintenance intensive, requiring a much more regular diet of lubricant oils as well as attention to other types of mechanical cleaning.
As there are many, many more brands of GBB’s then AEG’s, one is led to the inevitable questions, first off, of “Which brand do I choose?” This is absolutely impossible to say. Within just about ANY of the GBB makers, from Taiwan, Japan, or otherwise, both good and bad can be found.

What does this mean for you, the buyer? Again, you simply MUST do your own homework. With the abundance of different models out there from different makes, unless you are well educated in the specifics of the particular make/model you are interested in, you can pretty much be assured that you will not make the best decision. Grab a cup of coffee or a bottle of soda and a snack, and get ready to just READ.

The only other advice that I have for you newbies is to also become familiarized with the various technical aspects behind the entire GBB genre. A good place to start would be to become conversant about the various types of propellant gasses available.

Again, I must emphasize that each of the GBB’s regardless of brand of make, is individual onto itself. Each individual GBB will share specific performance, durability, reliability, and gas-efficiency characteristics that are unique to that pistol itself, and not often generalizable to any other replica. So instead of asking about comparisons in various posts and such, simply sit down, search, and read as much as you can about the replicas that you’re interested in – it’s the only sure way to go.

One important item to note about GBB’s is that regardless of what many retailers may say about their supposed durability – i.e. “x or y model can take a or b gas, straight out of the box” – NO GBB IS IMMUNE TO THE GENERAL LAWS OF MECHANICAL OBJECTS. This means that the more you “stress” the system, in this case, the GBB, with “higher-powered” gasses, the more likely it is that you will experience some kind of catastrophic mechanical breakdown or breakage of a critical component, and, for sure, you will experience increased wear and tear as compared to a counterpart GBB that’s been treated only to exclusive use of the “lower-powered” gasses. If you are having a hard time believing me, just think of it this way: race cars. These things are tuned to provide the most performance with commensurately the most stress placed on their parts – and while they are durable for the duration of the race, they routinely get full engine and other critical items replaced, many, many times per season due to excessive wear on critical components. Furthermore, they are also much more prone to having a breakdown than our everyday commuter cars. Another example? Think of the “higher-powered” gasses as “nitrous” for your GBB. Sure, you can run your car on nitrous all the time, but I’d be willing to bet that sooner rather than later, you’re going to blow your engine. So please, unless you are a “power hog” and are willing to deal with the consequences of having a broken GBB due to use of the “more powerful” gasses, then stick with HFC134a or the other lower-powered alternatives. Don’t come crying to me later – ‘cause I’ll just say “I told you so!”

My advice remains the same regarding shopping for the best price……

Finally, BB’s.

Which are best, and which are worse. If you’ve done any searching at all, you’ve undoubtedly noticed that there are three or four posts (to date) about just this topic that already exist on both these Forums, as well as at various other d-boards. And if you’ve actually read these threads, you’ve undoubtedly noticed that while some players will vehemently denounce one make and/or grade as being totally unacceptable (for whatever reasons, from lack of BB consistency [such as roundness, or lack thereof] to breakage in the barrel), others will, at the same time, praise the very same BB’s and swear by their use.

Why this inconsistency? Possibly the same as with the varying reports of performance and durability with the AEG’s and GBB’s – some players just have had better luck with one make than the other. Similarly, you may notice claims of BB superiority from a specific retailer that markets their own “brand” of BB’s – the problem is that they neither provide raw data for analysis by the skeptical, nor, do they, per se, provide quantitative data for review by the shopper. Instead, they just make qualitative claims with minimal cited backing data.

What can you do? Here, there’s simply no substitute for your own experience. Until someone can step in to do a truly quantitative study with statistical power, there’s simply no way for you to be sure that any claims are true until you’ve taken the initiative to try the BB’s in question for yourself.

===SUMMARY===

I hope that this general guide has been of assistance to you in your airsoft shopping process. Best wishes.

bAllen
Aka DumboRAT

m

HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:51:59 GMT X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Content-Type: text/html

404 Object Not Found

m
HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:51:59 GMT X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Content-Type: text/html

404 Object Not Found

 

Copyright ©2000 3dRetreat Network, design by X17