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pyrochris
Major
USA
Member Since: 03/05/2005 |
 Posted - 11/09/2005 : 6:49:16 PM
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I believe Propane is a highly efficient greenhouse gas (much more so than carbon dioxide), that is probably why they prohibit "venting". But the small quantities vented by users of airsoft guns worldwide is, for all practical purposes, non existant. I'm certain that much more than a million times that amount is released by the propane industry during the production and pressurizing/ transferring of propane gas.
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Almighty
Private
Philippines
Member Since: 08/03/2004 |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 1:50:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pyrochris
..the small quantities vented by users of airsoft guns worldwide is, for all practical purposes, non existant. I'm certain that much more than a million times that amount is released by the propane industry during the production and pressurizing/ transferring of propane gas.
As I'm sure the use of Freon in hairspray was just as miniscule, maybe even less, an amount compared airsoft discharge of unburned propane.. yet they did see fit to ban use of Freon in hairspray, and eventually ban/phaseout Freon altogether. If there's a whole lot of leakage during propane transfers.. its a wonder those industry people have not blown themselves up yet, or that often. |
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pyrochris
Major
USA
Member Since: 03/05/2005 |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 4:08:26 PM
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As far as I know, compressed gas industries do leak during many of their processes. An "engineering imperfection" you could call it. It is a more severe problem with lighter molecules, such as methane, but I have no doubt that the propane industry also has similar issues. Also keep in mind that accidental releases of propane also happen all over the world each year.
Perhaps my figures were overstated, but I would still have to argue that airsofters using propane don't really pose a threat to the environment. After all, propane and green gas are proven to be the same thing. So even if we don't use propane, we are still going to use propane...lol.
Even if propane is 10 times more effiecient at causing global warming than C02, over 25,000 Metric tons of CO2 are released each year. That would be the equivelent, global warming wize, as 2,500 metric tons of Propane. And how much propane do you think all airsofters combine release annually? Probably much less than a single metric ton, wouldn't you think? |
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Almighty
Private
Philippines
Member Since: 08/03/2004 |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 09:06:29 AM
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| I don't think the NFPA statute deals with environmental issues.. that's for the EPA to say something about. The NFPA issue is about fire hazards and safety. While you may say that the amount of propane released is negligible, your argument is, at best, just a guess. We, on the other hand, know of documented cases of unfortunate incidents involving accumulated flammable gas in relatively confined spaces.. so we choose to heed the PERC warning. It's your choice not to. Fine by us... |
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pyrochris
Major
USA
Member Since: 03/05/2005 |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 10:32:40 AM
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Oh well, It was fun to debate but I'll call it quits for now. I have to admit that my argument is in fact just an educated guess. I think the information to answer these questions may be available somewhere, but I haven't found it yet (and I've gave up for now).
Given that "venting" propane under the conditions of an airgun is "illegal", do you think the government will come down on airsoft for it? Of coarse, the airsoft community is not a particularily big one, although many suspect that it is growing. Do you think the government is formulating an evil plan to bring down airsoft? (like they are trying to do to all of my other hobbies as well...lol) |
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Almighty
Private
Philippines
Member Since: 08/03/2004 |
Posted - 11/13/2005 : 1:19:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pyrochris
Given that "venting" propane under the conditions of an airgun is "illegal", do you think the government will come down on airsoft for it? Of coarse, the airsoft community is not a particularily big one, although many suspect that it is growing. Do you think the government is formulating an evil plan to bring down airsoft? (like they are trying to do to all of my other hobbies as well...lol)
I really don't see how anyone could look at the situation in that light. The use of propane is not brought about, or demanded, by airsoft per se.. but by the users' choice. Anyone in their right mind would see that airsoft is not to blame, and that its the erring users they should go after. |
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Compton
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 11/05/2005 |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 6:36:59 PM
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Right; I've got a question here that I don't want to annoy people by starting a new topic with.
So, on a GBB, for example the Tokyo Marui Sig P226, is there considerable differnce with a suppressor affixed? An old question, probabaly; sorry if I'm annoying anyone, but I don't wanna go and buy one just to add wieght to my peice. (If needed for the answer, I plan to use it on Green gas and install metal slide and barrel.)
Thanks for your help,
~Compton |
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Jarhead18
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 01/03/2004 |
Posted - 12/31/2005 : 01:57:30 AM
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| Hey guys, I didnt read all of this thread, so this may have been posted before. Anyway, I found this website upon the inquiry of a friend. http://www.untouchables.it/gas-guide.htm It may help, and I found it to be very useful. |
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Zoulven
Private
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Member Since: 01/08/2006 |
Posted - 01/10/2006 : 7:59:47 PM
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Hey i just got a KWC co2 desert eagle...does anyone know if theres a type of bb and co2 it runs best on...if so please send link. I was also wondering if it runs on any type of 12g co2?
Thanks Zoulven, |
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Jayhawker
Private
USA
Member Since: 01/20/2006 |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 9:12:15 PM
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| I read what was said about "black gas" or co2, and the pressure it's under. The differential between that and green gas is significant and I can see where it might cause problems. My Question - what is the pressure in a 12g co2 cartridge? I have a Desert Eagle co2 blowback, that is designed to take co2 cartridges in the magazine (the one that sticks out from the handle). From the same supplier, I bought the gas magazine that's compatible with the gun. Assuming that the metal magazine can take the pressure of the co2 refill, why couldn't the gun, given that it was designed to run on co2 (12g cartridges)? Probably overly simple thinking, but if I have a c02 gun, why not run it on co2? Thanks! I enjoy reading everyone's comments on this forum. Scott |
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Jayhawker
Private
USA
Member Since: 01/20/2006 |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 01:05:26 AM
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Another question about a gas magazine for a co2 Desert Eagle .50 - I read the discussion earlier about Office Depot Duster Gas and figured I'd give it a try. Problem, there doesn't seem to be a way to get the gas from the can into the magazine - the little straw that comes with the can as a filler doesn't fit, and if you take the top off the can, the stem on the can doesn't fit either. Any ideas? Thanks. Scott
~edit - Do not double post (back to back posts), use the edit button. It's the one with the picture of the pencil & paper - 
-rantng |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 01:13:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker
I read what was said about "black gas" or co2, and the pressure it's under. The differential between that and green gas is significant and I can see where it might cause problems. My Question - what is the pressure in a 12g co2 cartridge? I have a Desert Eagle co2 blowback, that is designed to take co2 cartridges in the magazine (the one that sticks out from the handle). From the same supplier, I bought the gas magazine that's compatible with the gun. Assuming that the metal magazine can take the pressure of the co2 refill, why couldn't the gun, given that it was designed to run on co2 (12g cartridges)? Probably overly simple thinking, but if I have a c02 gun, why not run it on co2? Thanks! I enjoy reading everyone's comments on this forum. Scott
I'm stupid perhaps... Maybe this will help...
Unregulated co2= 800 psi compressed...
co2 that comes out of your cartidge= 115 psi
Green gas (Propane, HFC 22)=80-90 PSI
Duster Gas(HFC 134a)- 60 PSI or so....
Top gas= 90-100psi
Pumping unregulated co2 into magzine = Blowing your o-ring.
Performance of Desert Eagle= Ideal with co2 and .25 gram +
Gas Magazine= Bleh, why the hell are you getting duster instead of propane?
This post= Covered in equal signs... Lol
The
P.S., this might be helpful if your confused still.
AI propane adapter is 30$ and allows you to use the 3$ propane cans at walmart. If you have a metal slide, run it on propane... Remember... Green Gas= Propane + Lube
A new AI Duster Adapter has been made to use duster cans... Obviously, you cannot use the can without the duster adapter or melding a green gas nozzle onto it... |
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Mr. Marui
BANNED
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Member Since: 12/19/2004 |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 01:56:45 AM
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The pure cans of propane is a better deal if you use enough of it to make it worthwhile, but it you just plink every now and then over the course of the year, might as well just use green gas since you won't be using enough of the propane to exceed the cost of adapter etc.
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Jayhawker
Private
USA
Member Since: 01/20/2006 |
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 01:21:29 AM
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| I'm a newbie, but I understand basic physics. With all this discussion of the different gases (though it sounds like there are really only four available - any maybe only three - "Top Gas", Propane, Duster Gas and CO2. Not sure I can attach all the numbers, like HFC22 and 134, etc. Especially for a gun like the CO2 Desert Eagle being used with a compatible gas magazine, and perhaps other gas guns too - where the owner wants maximum safe power without the apparent lubrication issues of propane (I'm going to keep reading on this, I don't understand why propane is so much "dryer" than other gases)here's my question. Why isn't the perfect solution use of the paintball CO2 cannisters (which apparently are at 800+ psi, hence offer way more potential power than anyone can safely use), used with a regulator to set the pressure coming out of the can? The CO2 cannisters are readily available - sold as refills at WalMart - and you could set it to whatever pressure you wanted. For a gas magazine in my CO2 Desert Eagle, I'd use 115 psi, like the 12g cartridges. Does such a thing (the regulator) exist? I'm into scuba so I know the concept works. Scott |
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Juror_3
Private
Member Since: 01/11/2006 |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 02:34:38 AM
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Purple?
~edit - USELESS POSTS: Comments that do not contribute substance to a thread. Single word comments. Posts that do not need to be said. Comments that include insults or flames. Making useless posts or topics is typically considered Post Whoring and will result in a reduction of both rank and post count. Keep it up and you'll find your stay here limited.
-rantng |
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WhatTheWho
Major
Canada
Member Since: 10/08/2002 |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 12:15:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker
I'm a newbie, but I understand basic physics. With all this discussion of the different gases (though it sounds like there are really only four available - any maybe only three - "Top Gas", Propane, Duster Gas and CO2. Not sure I can attach all the numbers, like HFC22 and 134, etc. Especially for a gun like the CO2 Desert Eagle being used with a compatible gas magazine, and perhaps other gas guns too - where the owner wants maximum safe power without the apparent lubrication issues of propane (I'm going to keep reading on this, I don't understand why propane is so much "dryer" than other gases)here's my question. Why isn't the perfect solution use of the paintball CO2 cannisters (which apparently are at 800+ psi, hence offer way more potential power than anyone can safely use), used with a regulator to set the pressure coming out of the can? The CO2 cannisters are readily available - sold as refills at WalMart - and you could set it to whatever pressure you wanted. For a gas magazine in my CO2 Desert Eagle, I'd use 115 psi, like the 12g cartridges. Does such a thing (the regulator) exist? I'm into scuba so I know the concept works. Scott
"Dryer" relates to the fact that there is no lube in the propane like it's green gas counter part. You are buying off the shelf propane; why would it have lube?
There are CO2 rigs out there. People avoid them for realism issues or have a hose coming out of you gun, and such...
quote:
Originally posted by Juror_3
Purple?
Stop spamming. |
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Gas truths
