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Sigil
Private
USA
Member Since: |
 Posted - 09/01/2005 : 12:49:27 AM
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Hi folks. Sorry I've been out of touch the past week or so--been fighting a nasty virus / spyware infection and I'm just now getting functional again.
Did a bit of legwork on the phone today and got in touch with a fabrication shop that does specialized gear hobbing of they types in the gearbox. Plus, they're in Kirkland, which is near where I live (20 min east of Seattle--DJMikeOZ, we gotta meet for coffee or plinking some time!).
Here's what I've got so far. Just from what I described over the phone, Kirk (the guy who runs the shop) gave me a very promising estimate on cost per-gear--around $11 to $14 bucks per gear. Pinions will be cheap since they're just drawn and cut in sections.
He said he'd need to look at the piston sleeve and piston to make anything better than a random guess about the cost for those. The anti-reversal latch will need to be metal for durability. The spring guide looks like it should be fine, but I'll see what it would cost to make those out of metal as well.
The gearbox shells are complex and would be expensive. We may have to leave those plastic; I'll try and figure out a way to reinforce them. It may not even be an issue--has anybody actually cracked their gearbox shell yet due to the piston impacts?
So, summary:
These will be drop-in parts for ANY GUN THAT USES A BOYS GEARBOX copy--the TM Boys guns, CYMA/WELL, Double Eagle, and others (for reference, I'm basing the parts off Double Eagle G36C and Sig-552 parts).
These will be VERY HARD STAINLESS STEEL. Since most of you will be using stock motors, and anybody using more than an M130 spring in an LPEG--reinforced or not--is nuts, I'll say this: I MAKE *NO* SOLID GURANTEES, but for all intents and purposes, these ain't gonna strip unless you do something stupid or something wrong. I can't quite say that for sure if you put a larger motor or a 400+ FPS spring in there; it's still pretty unlikely though.
Here's the thing--if I get more than 50 of each part made, there's no setup fee. Less than 50, $200 setup fee. And I think that's *per part*.
I'm considering two paths: just the three main gears, pinion, and anti-reversal latch, OR, an entire replacement gearbox kit that also has the metal piston, piston sleeve, spring guide, and if I can swing it, the gearbox shell as well.
Just the gears-kit would be far cheaper--probably less than $50. The entire replacement gearbox kit would be a bit more--around $70, maybe more. I know in some cases that would be more than the cost of the gun, but let me re-emphazise this: these will be drop-in replacements of VERY HIGH DURABILITY. You LIKELY will be able to put AEG-class springs in these and very likely, with some tinkering, get your rifle to shoot on par with stock AEGs.
I don't have the money to cover an initial production run of 50 of each part on my own (if somebody DOES, go ahead and email me, garagebay9@garagebay9.com). I NEED PREPAID PRE-ORDERS IN ORDER TO MAKE THE FIRST PRODUCTION RUN HAPPEN! I know most of you get wary when somebody on the net says 'send me money, then I'll send you parts', so here's what I'll do. I'll write up a legal contract which says that, in return for you giving me your shipping address and either paypaling or sending me a check for the cost of the set + postage, I agree to be legally bound to have the parts produced and shipped to you. You even get my address and a phone number to nag me. :)
I'm going to try and get out to the shop and get an exact estimate by this weekend. Remember, the more people who get in on the first run, the cheaper it is. What I need from you folks are two things:
1) Everybody who reads this and would order one or either of these sets, assuming the cost is less than $80, PLEASE EMAIL ME AND LET ME KNOW. Include your preference--ONLY the gear kit, ONLY the whole gearbox, or either, AND HOW MANY!. My email is: garagebay9@garagebay9.com.
Then TELL EVERYBODY YOU KNOW WHO OWNS AN LPEG AND HAVE THEM EMAIL ME IF THEY ARE INTERESTED. Have THEM tell everybody THEY know with an LPEG, etc. Like I said: garagebay9@garagebay9.com. If you've already emailed me (I know one or two of you have), PLEASE EMAIL ME AGAIN!
2) I'm never going to get this to happen without a lot of publicity. Everybody here, please compile a list of all the big airsoft forums on the net and post it in this thread (and if you could, post about this in those forums, too) so I can try and get the word out as far as I can.
As soon as I have an exact figure, I'll get back to you guys! |
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DJMikeOz
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 12/17/2004 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 02:29:07 AM
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sweet Sigil! I love coffee. dj_mike_oz@hotmail.com -I.M. me for that coffee. How much do we need for initial run? I don't work OT at $18 an hour for nothing, And plinking is all I've done all summer. So let's go for it.
-Mike |
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sgtwiltan
Captain
USA
Member Since: 08/17/2005 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 09:42:59 AM
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| If you can get it cheaper than $70 then it would make it worth while not to get XM8 just for the gearbox. Remember you'd get the full gearbox, connector, and battery with the XM8 and not to mention an upgraded motor most likely with the full gun. 50 bucks for just the gears is also expensive since AEG gearsets are cheaper than that and are machined/forged aluminum alloy material. |
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joshbm
Sergeant
Member Since: 08/18/2005 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 09:59:06 AM
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Pretty exciting! I can't wait! One thing, if I may, suggest, is wouldn't it be a good idea to see if along with all the parts you could ask them to build a spring that will fire in the LPEG at around 280-300 fps with .2g for Boys weapons (like DE M4, etc)? That way we don't all have to go out and search for the "uber-most-powerful-pistol-springer" and buy it just for the spring. Plus I don't even think that there is a pistol springer that fires 300 with .2g.
I also agree that if you kept the costs for full-metal gearbox set down then it would leave no reason why people would have to purchase the XM8 just because it has a metal gearbox (or the UTG MP5 for that matter).
Just my $.02,
Josh |
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DJMikeOz
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 12/17/2004 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 6:43:12 PM
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With the gears that Sigil is proposing to build, you will be able to use pdi 130's for springs and would be a higher quality than upgraded aeg gears, so whatever the cost, I think it will be worth it. The only thing that may not be possible to build at a cost effective price would be the outer casing, but the gears are definatley doable. Sigil's gears would be "Drop In" parts so you wouldn't have to modify anything for them to work properly. This is just awesome any way you think about it.
Why get a whole XM8 just for parts when you can buy a replacement gearbox for $12??
http://www.blow-gun.com/storefront/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TZSI&Product_Code=AEG-Motor-M83-M85&Category_Code=airsoft-acc
-Mike
Edit: Remember, these gears will fit any boys type gearbox clone or copy. So any LPEG that has copied such design will accept these gears including the new XM8, and all DE guns. |
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justsomeguy
Colonel
USA
Member Since: 07/08/2004 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 7:02:31 PM
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| It's a great idea, but If it costs anymore than 70-80 bucks, prospective buyer's should save 20 more bucks and get the UTG MP5. |
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FOOL
Captain
USA
Member Since: 01/14/2005 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 7:08:54 PM
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| Yeah, I agree with JSG, it's not worth it. |
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Sigil
Private
USA
Member Since: 08/14/2005 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 8:31:25 PM
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I realize most people would consider $70 as "not worth it". I'm trying to keep the price below $50.
I have a source for springs that I may include for a buck or two extra. They're not specialized AEG springs, but they're the right diameter, length and stiffness to work fine. Originally I didn't plan to include springs because I assumed people would want to pick their own. |
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joshbm
Sergeant
Member Since: 08/18/2005 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 8:54:20 PM
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Well if the PDI 130 fits then I don't need an included spring. I just didn't know the PDI springs fit in the LPEG.
Regards,
Josh |
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sgtwiltan
Captain
USA
Member Since: 08/17/2005 |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 8:58:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by justsomeguy
It's a great idea, but If it costs anymore than 70-80 bucks, prospective buyer's should save 20 more bucks and get the UTG MP5.
If they want an MP5 version. I would love to power up my SIG, AKs, and M4s.
Josh,
What I meant was a complete fully upgraded gearbox with the metal gears,Stronger motor?, and springs would be more cost efective than replacing each component individually and I would not have to worry about mucking up the gearbox by opening it. It would be worth while to me to have that convenience for a $20 price difference.
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joshbm
Sergeant
Member Since: 08/18/2005 |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 01:10:49 AM
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Yes, I would think that many people are interested. You just need to give them an exact price. Even if it is dependant on how many people want one. For example:
50-60: $70 full gearbox
61-70: $55 full gearbox
etc.
At least I am anxious to know what the pricing will be.
Regards,
Josh |
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Metal Gearbox Kit update
