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justsomeguy
Colonel
USA
Member Since: |
 Posted - 01/06/2006 : 03:16:38 AM
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LPEG was term I first coined circa last year. It means “Low Powered Electric Gun”. Affordable Airsoft likes to use it as “Low Priced” to reduce the numbers of customers that question the accuracy of their performance statements.
Where to draw the line between LPEG and AEG….
____________________Let’s start off with some history____________________
Some of the more senior airsoft veterans know that LPEGs first stemmed off from mini electric guns, miniature replicas of full size AEGs. These replicas were extremely toy-like, hardly suitable for competition or serious use, with 130fps and a gravity fed mechanism. Main consumers were small children and others who were looking for cheap full automatic fun. Eventually, someone had the bright idea of transferring the inner workings of the mini electrics into a full size body. In order for this to be done, engineers worked the internals into a box like structure. I believe the first of these guns were constructed by Well. It was an Uzi. These still had the performance of regular mini electrics and had the benefit of a weaker construction. In order to save production costs, Well had cut corners by using cheaper plastics. These Uzi’s (used to be sold by Jungletoy [maybe they still are]) would break down after ~500 shots and were powered by a 7.2v battery housed internally. Packaged inside was a false magazine that was only used for display purposes. Today, Well manufactures a newer model that uses this false magazine to house the battery. Obviously, this Uzi, both old and new, were failures. They had no positive benefits other than cheap replication.
Tokyo Marui soon introduced the “Boys” series M4. This replica featured a reliable gearbox mechanism with adjustable hopup, 7.2v-9v power, 15rps, a magazine fed mechanism, and Tokyo Marui quality that showed in workmanship, trademarks, and the materials. The downside was the cost: nearly 100 dollars during first introduction. Well soon released a replication, with grim results. Using sub-par materials, they produced a replica powered by a 4.8v battery and a much less reliable gearbox. Still ignored by the general airsoft population, Well churned out another failure, the Well P90. It used the same gearbox as the aforementioned Uzi replica and was priced too high for the level of performance it offered. CYMA and Well soon became partners in the United States and churned out several successful copies using copied Marui technology. They created G36c and SG552 copies. These copies featured performance near to that of the TM Boys series and were ~$50. Double Eagle soon joined the fray with their own replicas of the G36c, SG552, M4, and SR16. These had adjustable hopup and higher material quality. Within months of these introductions, Tokyo Marui faded out of the picture after producing the MP5Boys, unable to compete in this market. These replicas still shot ~130-150fps but were more resilient to abuse and much better looking than minis.
Around this time, the AEG discussion was full of chaos. Many members were convinced these replicas were able to compete with real AEGs and could be upgraded. It would be chaos to identify which replica the topic regarded and as a result, the author would often receive information regarding another gun. LPEG was coined for the purposes of identification and an LPEG section was soon created.
After I wrote an EBB/LPEG/Mini Buyer’s Guide, a new type of LPEG was introduced. As a result, and to my chagrin, the guide had to be rewritten. In fact, I should rewrite it as a result of new products. Anyway, the new model, which was, and still is produced by Both Elephant, turned out to be an AUG replica. It shot ~200fps with 0.12BBs and featured a 9.6v battery. With a fifty feet increase in performance over existing replicas, this LPEG was received with open arms. Goldenbow also produced a line of MP5 LPEGs that shot ~180fps with 0.12BBs. Now, the significance of these models lies in their internal structure. They feature replicas of actual Marui AEG gearboxes, which fire ~280FPS stock. LPEGs by CYMA/Well and Double Eagle were based off Marui LPEG gearboxes. Recently, Both Elephant released an XM8 replica that used similar technology that was more advanced that produced a phenomenal ~250FPS. Jingong also produced several AK replicas.
____________________Now some modification history____________________
Current LPEG Gearboxes by SgtWiltan
When the first TM Boys was introduced, one of the initial owners was AlphaTechnica. He has since changed his username and I think it was for a reason, so I will not mention his current one. He was able to modify his to use a battery pack, commando hacked it, and inserted a spring from a Marui HGHU springer to create a 200fps LPEG. Many others have followed in his footsteps. As many of you may know, SgtWiltan, Illicom and DJMikeOz are also some of the forefathers in LPEG modification. Many of their works are available in the LPEG section. As for myself, I was able to create a 20rps 235 FPS Marui Boys M4 with borrowed technology from AlphaTechnica. I used his commando hack and added a SpecOps cut. As a result though, gears had to be changed every few magazines as a result of the abuse. SgtWiltan soon proved the worth of the new style LPEGs and modified some GB MP5s to the extent of craziness. He also documented many LPEG statistics and created a sticky with this information. He and I also documented some of the FPS of LPEGs using actual chronographs. DJMikeOz also took some time to create modification guides for the Marui style LPEG gearbox. Recently, DDG has turned a BE XM8 into a plastic death machine. We all need to thank these members for their fantastic work.
____________________Now onto the point____________________
Many doubted the potential of LPEGs from their initial introduction, and I don’t blame them. Now, today, we are in the position of arguing the difference between AEG and LPEG.
LPEG is an extremely broad and not very defined term, but as it’s creator, I will try to give you my definition. For me, LPEG relates to any replica that is fully automatic, battery powered, and features a plastic gearbox and/or plastic gears with relatively low price (No STAR M249). AEG is also a broad term. Many replicas would fit under its umbrella.
Some may argue about the power of the new BE XM8 and that it should be considered an AEG, or at least another term coined. That is plain stupid. We don’t need a new term to classify 3 new replicas. Whilst it is powerful, take into consideration the first LPEGs modified. It was possible for them to reach the level of performance of AEGs. All you needed to do was stick in a stiffer spring. But for an AEG, there are many more opportunities. The maximum output of an LPEG in any field quivers in comparison of the AEG in that same field. For the BE XM8, it reaches stock AEG performance at stock LPEG price, but I surmise that all BE did was change the thickness of plastic used and stick in a stiffer spring. There are members that have reaches stock AEG performance in a BE AUG by spring replacement. The fact remains that these BE guns have plastic gearboxes and I feel they are LPEGs. Take the Y&P Famas and Academy L85 in consideration. We have classified them as AEGs, even though we are aware of the fact that they fire ~200FPS with 0.20BBs. This is because they have metal internals. In order for LPEGs to reach AEG level, they would have to be comparable to AEGs in all areas. Most people are looking at performance, but they fail to notice the modification element.
LPEGs and AEGs have their own places in the airsoft world, and there will always be a division between AEG and LPEG, but that division may grow to be extremely small. UTG recently released AEGs that are extremely cheap, and as a result of their metal internals, they are classified as AEGs. Just remember that in airsoft, you get what you pay for. UTG is not close to TM. LPEGs are not close to AEGs, even if some owners don’t wish to admit it. Let go of your feelings and stop trying to reassure yourself on your purchases. It’s irritating.
In 2004, I would never have expected this to happen, but hey, it happened. Lets see what happens this year, in 2006.
____________________Some Current LPEG Mods by ASR Members____________________
In my opinion, it is amazing what some members have done with their LPEGs. Here is just a sampling. If you don't want your gun to be shown, just shoot me an email.
Thanks for reading!
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Andrew
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 11/21/2004 |
Posted - 01/06/2006 : 9:05:57 PM
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Wow, thanks for that very comprehensive summary of the LPEG history, JSG! I've been thinking to myself the past couple of weeks about how far and fast this new aspect of airsoft has grown over the last several years.. Simply amazing. I think that LPEGs have been gaining much more popularity lately than anything else in the field of airsoft. And why not? They are now good looking, good feeling, and getting more powerful by the minute. And they're cheap!
I think that every new airsofter just learning about the quickly growing "cheap AEG" part of airsoft should read this excellent overview! |
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tedtay17
Major
USA
Member Since: 01/09/2005 |
Posted - 01/06/2006 : 10:30:21 PM
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hey iam am almost done with my conversion of a well p90 into a support weapon once i get it all painted and spruced up maybe you could throw it inot hose pics if you think it is worthy
edit btw please sticky this RLB |
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justsomeguy
Colonel
USA
Member Since: 07/08/2004 |
Posted - 01/07/2006 : 02:10:19 AM
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| Sure, i'm curious to see it. Have you modified the feeding mechanism? |
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tedtay17
Major
USA
Member Since: 01/09/2005 |
Posted - 01/07/2006 : 3:04:09 PM
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| umm no i am not that mechanically inclined |
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sgtwiltan
Major
USA
Member Since: 08/17/2005 |
Posted - 01/09/2006 : 12:22:50 PM
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Thanks for the credit. as I've said before and firmly believe, collaborations are the key to making anything useful if not successful. There is also a new crop of more mature LPEGgers that have something better to add then "it sucks" into the mix. Certainly Andrew(mods),GoluGolu(mods and info),Mig1(mods and Info),Tedtay(mods),L33tNOOB(mods),BigPhish (news),Themanwiththeplasticmag(info though he is more an AEGer),FubarSliz(mods and reviews) AND Eddy72(mods and info) have all made some significant contributions as far as productive/creative ones though some have reverted back to opinionated garbage rather than objective data. Forgive me if I have forgotten some of you but these names stand out to me. Let's show everybody that there is indeed an LPEG community and one that is to be respected. Good job. I certainly refer back to your original Guide for all sorts of research. Hopefully more members decide be beneficial contributors with their ideas instead of nay-sayers.
I am still behind as far as mods I've yet to touch like the P90 with Boys gearboxes and a sprung mag, BOYs, Durable gearbox mod to the 170-180 FPS range, "matrix" AK gearbox innard swap with the GB gearbox as well as AEG mods. I hope to start and finish some of the current projects like the SIG review but there is only a finite amount of time available. |
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TheManWithThePlasticMag
Staff Writer
USA
Member Since: 11/12/2003 |
Posted - 01/09/2006 : 1:32:48 PM
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A couple things you missed:
DongSan, I think, made LPEGS in the shape of Micro Uzis ($20-40, used 4AAA batteries, shot maybe 50 feet at maybe 100fps) with their own propriatery mechanism.
Also made were an MP5K PDW. IceFire and AbercrombieAndAirsoft used to have them, don't know if they still do. |
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Eddy72
Captain
USA
Member Since: 11/27/2004 |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 3:35:45 PM
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Great Sticky JSG. Ultra informative and thorough as usual. I am glad that somebody stepped up to draw a line between the AEGs and LPEGs. I haven't visited this forum in a while, but I am honored to be included in your list of LPEG Modifiers.
I remember when I first posted here and my taped-up TOP M4 stunk up the place . I learned alot since then.
I just wonder what 2006 will hold for LPEGs. For all we know, LPEGs may become increasingly better for decreasingly lower amounts of money, and the AEG market might become concerned with their prices for thier AEGs. In a new-person's point of view, why would you want to pay $300 for a 280fps AEG, if you could by a 250fps LPEG for $70? Not saying this is going to happen, just my two cents. |
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sandbag
Private
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USA
Member Since: 01/13/2006 |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 07:20:55 AM
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| that is dead on. my first high performance aeg IS an lpeg. why spend over 300 for a 300fps gun, when i can spend 250 and have a gun with almost the same internals, shooting a bit over 300, with a 3000 round capacity electric auto winding c-mag? and it shoots as straight as a 300 gun, since it uses an aftermarket upgraded barrel for said 300 dollar gun. |
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Eddy72
Captain
USA
Member Since: 11/27/2004 |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 3:06:40 PM
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| Heh... Not saying that will happen, its just one of the many many possiblities of the future. |
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justsomeguy
Colonel
USA
Member Since: 07/08/2004 |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 3:37:11 PM
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Sandbag, I see your argument, and I agree, but LPEGs and AEGs have seperate distinctions and uses. An LPEG can never be used to the extent of an AEG. More serious players know this, which is why the more serious players use Marui, not CA, and defintely not BE.
I have to get me one of those XM8s, but damn. I look back at my TM Boys, and it's completely outdated now. lol. |
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gulogulo
Sergeant
Hungary
Member Since: 10/08/2005 |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 4:13:34 PM
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| Get one, JSG, Id be interested in reading another in-depth review! |
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Division between LPEG and AEG (LPEG Definition)
