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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: |
 Posted - 02/04/2006 : 10:41:58 PM
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Well yesterday, I recieved some super strong magnets off ebay. No joke, they came with a plastic thing in between each of these little magnets so that you can actaully take them apart. If you forget to put these plastic things back together, well, let's just say you won't be see those two magnets apart for a very long time. Well, I just thought about this today, and though I don't have the capabilities to build one, just wanted to leave these ideas out there.
A spring is something that allows you to store energy and release it at your choice. Two repelling magnets could be pushed together and released too. YOu could cock the magnets together, and then push down a button to release it. Obviosly, no iron can be used to build the gun. However, most metal parts in the internals of airsoft guns can be made with aluminum anyways. |
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TheManWithThePlasticMag
Staff Writer
USA
Member Since: 11/12/2003 |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 11:23:28 PM
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You're looking at a basic railgun principle. Theoretically I can't find much in the way of problems with it, but then again I'm a failure at Physics.
As I recall, the fake F2000 'used' a similar 'system.' |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 11:40:27 PM
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Nah, that was different. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were using completely different properties that require a vast some of energy. The NAVY is developing rail guns as of now, but it requires
a. superconductors
b. diverted energy from the main engine.
Back on topic, any magnet can be pushed together, and if you let them go, they will repel each other quickly. Just like a spring. It's much more basic than it looks. |
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d_thedj
Sergeant
Member Since: 07/04/2005 |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 12:18:34 AM
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Are you implying to put the magnets in the piston cylinder in place of the spring?
Very interesting idea.
I wonder if the metal gearbox would interfere with the magnetic field. Might want to try it with a plastic LPEG gearbox first, just to prove out the theory.
Interesting, very interesting |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 09:29:19 AM
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Yes, that's what I meant... I probably wouldn't have the materials to build one, but I'm sure a springer would be the easiest to work with. I've though of the following problems with this though.
1. Magnets can break, even if they are metal coated like the ones I use. Padding may be needed.
2. They may or may not be less efficient that just cocking a spring gun. |
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ellisano_clan
Private
Member Since: 01/10/2006 |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 10:38:47 AM
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How far away can they be and still pull on eachother?
This a pretty sweet idea. Even if it isn't as strong as the spring, you could always put the magnet AND the spring in. assuming they fit of course.
I'm wondering how the effect would be, since magnets pull harder the closer they are together. This would make it harder to initialize the pull, and easier to finish it off. Gearboxes work the exact opposite. Not a problem in spring guns, but it might mess up the syncronization of a gearbox.
sweet idea. |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 1:21:36 PM
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I meant them to repel each other, not push each other. Springs contract, and then expand. I don't think the strenght of the magnets is a problem. I cannot push these magnets together with my bare hands, downgrading might even be an option
BTW: Alumnum parts should be used, as they are both strong and not magnetic. |
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ellisano_clan
Private
Member Since: 01/10/2006 |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 6:55:43 PM
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| oh, ok. I was thinking that there would be onon the ourside of the cylinder and one worked into the piston so they would be pulling eachother. Either way, that's extremely innovative. |
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shortman_AuG
Private
Member Since: 09/25/2005 |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 5:50:54 PM
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| You could make the magnet pull back the spring instead of replacing it, just an idea or a elctromagnet could be used eliminating the gears and piston of a gearbox! |
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NerdRecon
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 10/29/2005 |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 6:06:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by shortman_AuG
You could make the magnet pull back the spring instead of replacing it, just an idea or a elctromagnet could be used eliminating the gears and piston of a gearbox!
Sorry to break the news to you, but that wouldn't work. Electromagnets take a second to magnetize, so the ROF would be horrible.
 - Very interesting idea. I don't think you'll have a problem with them breaking if they're neodymium magnets which is what they sound like they are. Nevertheless, you might want to use some high-density foam to absorb some of the impact. |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 6:12:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NerdRecon
quote:
Originally posted by shortman_AuG
You could make the magnet pull back the spring instead of replacing it, just an idea or a elctromagnet could be used eliminating the gears and piston of a gearbox!
Sorry to break the news to you, but that wouldn't work. Electromagnets take a second to magnetize, so the ROF would be horrible.
- Very interesting idea. I don't think you'll have a problem with them breaking if they're neodymium magnets which is what they sound like they are. Nevertheless, you might want to use some high-density foam to absorb some of the impact.
Well, a counter magnet might do the trick... No foam that way! |
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foxhound
Colonel
USA
Member Since: 09/17/2003 |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 6:55:23 PM
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Well you could use a magnetic system to fire it and again cock it.
I don't get how it would work if you fired it but to cock it again you just need another magnet to make them go back together again so it could work like a semi-automatic magnet.
Start a new gun SAM. Semi-Automatic Magnet.
-Fox
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 5:54:29 PM
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Semi-auto would be difficult, and electricit would be needed....
Thanks for the input guys. |
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M1k3l0
Captain
USA
Member Since: 06/11/2004 |
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 7:20:15 PM
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This is not a lot like a rail gun. More like a coil gun.
A rail gun involves two RAILS with the projectile in the middle. The two opposite charges cause the projecti........ -_- Don't feel like explaining- Google it.
A gauss or coil rifle involves a coils... The coils create magnetic forces once electrical charges are put through the coils.. Using just magnets wouldn't work. It would definatley not be strong enough, and the ammunition would be expensive unless you use coils.
By the way, magnets lose their magnetism with enough impact... So replacement parts would be needed a lot.
If you use rails, self-loading guns would be extremely hard and over-heating rails would be a serious problem. Plus, rails might be too powerful. |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 10:47:14 PM
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It's like neither of the two methods you metnioned...
I realize magnets lose magnetism.... Springs also lose tension....
I'm not talking about rails, just a circular tube. I'm not a physics boy, but I can tell you that you are not understanding it, really, it's much more simple than you would imagine... It's proven physics, not this hypothetical rail mumbo-jumbo...
M1k30 your method is un-buildable with homemade parts, and is not conceivable with the relatively low output of a battery. |
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Turahk Master of Fear
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 11/30/2005 |
Posted - 02/08/2006 : 10:23:49 PM
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He's not talking about a coil gun or a rail gun. He's talking about two repelling magnets doing the same job that a spring would.
A rail gun would NEVER be a good airsoft gun because of its extremely lethal hypersonic speeds that even vaporize the barrel of the gun. That could be ugly...  not to mention the weight and the amount of power it would consume. 
, I think that your idea sounds awesome. I say go for it if you can, and post instructions!  |
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M1k3l0
Captain
USA
Member Since: 06/11/2004 |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 11:15:31 AM
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| Magnets lose a lot of their magnetism even if you just drop them or hit them. A spring loses it over a lot of time. |
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Bender711
Major
USA
Member Since: 02/17/2005 |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 5:30:08 PM
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| yea i was about ot say that, try hitting one of those magnets with a hammer and see what happens. |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 6:12:08 PM
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| obviously, they would get stuck to the hammer, and then break.... The impact is something that can be defintely reduceable, just need to figure it out... |
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ellisano_clan
Private
Member Since: 01/10/2006 |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 6:18:10 PM
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| you could just cut a segment from a return spring from a crap pistol and use that for cushion. |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 6:20:16 PM
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| springs are made of iron... that's what sucks.. |
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scott goodson
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 11/13/2005 |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 6:31:45 PM
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| Lpeg springs aren't, neither are some accesory springs in guns, I don't think the spring in the super 9's bolt was "not the actual firing spring the very small one" Help me out here though, how would you quickly reverse the polarity of the magnets to have one fly forward. Good Idea though. You could make this a welrod style thing quite easily. |
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Thequestionmark
Major
USA
Member Since: 09/06/2005 |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 3:19:44 PM
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Magnets are having the same side facing each other, therefore repelling each other... You push them together, holding both magnets firmly facing each other, and they will push each other away after you let go.
I dunno, I know for for a fact that my m9's recoil spring is magnetic.
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scott goodson
Sergeant
USA
Member Since: 11/13/2005 |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 7:26:21 PM
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| The spring in the bolt of the super nine, most lpeg springs, ebb handgun springs...thats about all I can think of at the moment. |
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chewondave
Captain
Member Since: 01/11/2005 |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 11:47:16 PM
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| You won't find two small commercial magnets with enough power to repell each other to make a decent airsoft gun. Sure they'd repell, but to find magnets of sufficient strength would be extremely difficult, and the amount of energy needed to pull back the magnets, in effect "cocking" the gun, would be very close to a spring's. There's no real point to trying this, since it'll be much more expensive to develop, and will have no real advantages. You'd basically have the same setup, (cylinder, trigger unit, etc.) except the piston and the spring guide would be replaced by industrial grade-magnets (even then i doubt the power would be anything acceptable). |
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Rain_Man
Private
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USA
Member Since: 01/26/2006 |
Posted - 02/11/2006 : 01:01:40 AM
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i have seen a gun that actually uses electromagnets and has a rof of over 100 rounds per second with 8mm steel bb's and an fps of about 600fps
it was pretty crazy it has no moving parts and does not use a barrel but instead uses three guide rails. it sounds like a saw-zaw when it fires and it is about the size of an HK psg1 and uses a 197 volt 27,000mah lithium polimer battery back pack unit.
it is crazy it works like a rail gun |
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A gun built with magnets? A randomly stupid idea..
